On the other hand, edge stability in terms of micro chipping and edge folding is also good. Different types of knife steel Alleima 8Cr13MoV still has some corrosion resistance, but not as much as D2. The ultra high corrosion resistance steels Vanax or LC200N max out around 60-61 Rc instead. CRKT Bona Fide Review: 1.4116 Steel vs. D2 - Nothing But Knives The best steels with balanced properties include 4V/Vanadis4E, CPM-CruWear, and CPM-M4. LC200N has similar properties to those two but with saltwater levels of corrosion resistance. Perhaps a bigger issue with the upper temper is for stainless steels, as there is a significant reduction in corrosion resistance by tempering at 1000F instead of 400F. Its OK to be a steel snob, but keep in mind that you dont have to if you want a good knife. https://www.patreon.com/Knifesteelnerds, Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window). High Alloy Tool Steel and High Speed Steel Ratings. This is an old high-carbon (non-stainless) steel. This is a bit of a guess because I cant find un-notched Charpy data on it. whats even more disturbing is that cvn and fracture toughness sometimes (often?) Phone Hours (MST) Copper frame are very sturdy and machine well and take the best patina over time. Steels high in toughness are excellent for knives likely to see hard impacts, like large chopping knives. If the steel is overheated in austenitizing, very large reductions in toughness are possible. Because of the material difference, the blades differ in toughness, edge retention, corrosion resistance, and ease of sharpening. Used in knives since at least World War II, 1095 performance varies considerably with an abundance of tweaks in the recipe and heat treat. However, Kershaw asked Sandvik to make their 13C26 steel more resistant to corrosion, and the result was 14C28N. The main downside is the steel is more difficult to heat treat and can't go harder than about 60 or perhaps 61 Rc. Jesse Jarosz, a custom maker from Montana, regularly uses AEB-L. 14C28N knives offer better toughness than D2 knives. Bohler N690Co Stainless Steel: Is N690 a Good Knife Steel? - KnifeGuides a burr might have developped on some of the steels and not on others, it might have ben reduced or even removed by the process. Dr. Thomas is a friend of ours here at Blade HQ, and with his help, weve worked to create this knife steel guide. The old rule in steels used to be corrosion resistance, toughness, or hardness choose two. But SM100 (the trade name for Nitinol 60) threw that out the window when introduced to the cutlery world. Carpenter produces this powder steel. I think this website is aimed at dispelling these kinds of assertions. I mean the box cutter type, with the replaceable trapezoidal blades. They were two different tests (different batch of steel, different person heat treating, etc). at least it has some vanadium over the 420hc. The most balanced is CPM-MagnaCut which is in an area all by itself on the chart. Heres a brief description of their impact on the resulting steels properties. Most of the midrage ifferings have 14c28n, how does it compare to d2 in your experience? Ah ok that wasnt mentioned. This was not necessarily because of superior toughness but because of the superior strength of the MagnaCut from higher hardness. CPM-3V is a powder metallurgy contender in this category. High toughness steels can be produced without powder metallurgy and also have low wear resistance for lower manufacturing costs. If you would like to change your settings or withdraw consent at any time, the link to do so is in our privacy policy accessible from our home page.. Micarta Because of the material difference, the blades differ in toughness, edge retention, corrosion resistance, and ease of sharpening. https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/12/03/cryogenic-part1/ The D2, on the other hand, has a thicker and more durable blade that is better suited for tough tasks like chopping wood or prying open cans. 52100 and CruForgeV are good for general purpose knives. CPM-S90V, CPM-S110V, CPM-10V, and Bohler K390 each fit in this category. In reality hardly difference. This is the steel used in Swiss Army knives and is excellent for beginner sharpeners. A Japanese powder steel, ZDP-189 is essentially the polar opposite of 3V its uber-hard instead of uber-tough. Knife Blades: Common Steels Explained | GearJunkie Powder metallurgy is a technology designed to maintain a small carbide size. In this article, we will discuss the characteristics, pros, cons, and differences between 14C28N and D2 knives to help to make the right choice. [Complete Steel Guide], What is Vg-10 steel?- [Steel Knife Review], The Difference Between 440c steel vs d2: Compared guide, Is 8cr13mov Good Knife Steel [Complete Steel Guide], Amazon Best Sellers in Pocket Knives & Folding Knives. Cold Steel still uses VG-1 on some knives, and, for the money, it does well. Its possible that there are steel manufacturers with better processing which would lead to an even carbide distribution but I cant say that without seeing it for myself. AEB-L and 14C28N are the best in the high toughness group. That is an air-hardening- high carbon, high chromium tool steel. H2 14C28N Vs 440C Knife - edcTopic.com 14C28N vs D2: Overview 14C28N steel is a high-end stainless steel created by the Swedish company Sandvik. CPM-S90V is my favorite in the high edge retention category because of its decent toughness. Heat treatment and edge geometry can mean more for knife performance than the specific steel used in the knife. also the angle is by far the most important factor in catra testing, so such results might be irrelevant. What makes 1.4116 such a bad performer in regards to toughness on par with ultra high carbide steel like S125V? worldwide, even the chinese have an equivalent (8cr13mov). H1 The most traditional models of pocket knives have different parts, such as the handle and cutting performance. They are usually chosen for their looks rather than performance. Nitro V vs 14C28N Last but not least, 14C28N contains comparatively more vanadium elements which makes the carbides more harder and strong, which gives 14C28N a better edge retention. By signing up for email newsletters, you agree to GearJunkie's, Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to email a link to a friend (Opens in new window). The line is only in the neighborhood of 5 of the datapoints. Keeping in mind that I have a well rounded Set of sharpening skills. SPY27 And while it can be hard depending on the heat treat, I have found it easily chips, causing microscopic dings in the edge when hardened to a high level on a thin blade. This makes for a great slicing knife and a perfect steel, in my opinion, for a regular-use, everyday-carry folder. 14C28N steel is as a result of a more corrosion resistant version of the 13C26 steel. Steels do come at various price points, however, depending on the cost of producing them and the cost for the knife company to work with them. 14C28N Vs D2 . Its hard enough, tough enough, and stain-resistant enough. In general, higher carbon steels have higher edge retention but lower toughness. Nitro V is also significantly cheaper than many other steels with this level of performance. It shows 3 stainless steels from 750-800tcc but the edge retention graph only has 1 SS in that range, S90v. The bump in hardness comes from precipitation of fine carbides in the steel, read an article I wrote on budget steels here, https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/05/26/new-micrographs-of-42-knife-steels/, https://i0.wp.com/knifesteelnerds.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/stainless-toughness-10-19-21.jpg?w=757&ssl=1, https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/10/14/corrosion-resistance-testing/, https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/03/02/cpm-spy27-experiments-toughness-corrosion-resistance-and-more/, https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/12/03/cryogenic-part1/, https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/12/10/cryogenic-processing-of-steel-part-2/, https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/12/17/cryogenic-processing-of-steel-part-3/, The Pros And Cons Of Stainless Steel Copper And Aluminum Brewing Equipment SanctuaryBrewCo, https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/05/01/testing-the-edge-retention-of-48-knife-steels/. What is pulling that line high and to the right? Is that regression line (or other trend line?) 9cr18mov vs 14c28n. Some steels are cooked up specifically with this in mind and are very difficult to make rust. Check out theGiantMouse Vox/Anso ACE Iona Liner Lock Knife at $99, for example. It applies to both of course, hence why there isnt a separate label. It wont hang long with high-end powder metal steels(a method of making steel using ultra-pure micrograins of steel that are heated and pressed together). The steel falls under the Sandvik series of steels and makes one of the 7 steel grades in this family including 12C27M, 14C28N, 13C26, and others. Lets talk about the clip-on pocket knife. The Sandvik 14C28N has a very thin and sharp blade that is perfect for slicing through things. My name is Jonathan M, and Im a passionate Mechanical Engineer, a knife enthusiast, and the author of this website. The 14C28N stainless steel from Swedish manufacturer Sandvik is considered an upgrade to their 13C26 steel (described below). 12C27 They have many similarities, including their high hardness, strength, and wear resistance. at least it has some vanadium over the 420hc. 7:00am-5:00pm, 10am-7pm Tuesday - Friday Some of our partners may process your data as a part of their legitimate business interest without asking for consent. The greatest living knifemaker and one of the greatest knifemakers of all time, Michael Walker, calls AEB-L one of his favorite steels. So hard vanadium carbides means you get more edge retention for a given amount of carbide. This is the basis on which I do the ratings rather than a linear scale. If you want for best steel 14c28n and others steel then you can ready 14c28n vs 420hc review. Theyre excellent for choppers, hard-use folders, and outdoor knives that see impacts and heavy use when used at medium hardness. The stainless steel rating. 14C28N vs. D2. 1. This is also a powder-metal steel produced by American steel company Crucible. An example of data being processed may be a unique identifier stored in a cookie. Below shows approximate maximum hardness vs stainless rating for several stainless knife steels. Could you please compare it to Shirogami #1 and Agomi #1, I didnt find anything in terms of grain size ragarding thoese steels on the Internert. It's like the difference between average 420HC and Buck's 420HC with the Bos heat treatment, only from a better starting point. A good quality knife must have sharpness, great edge retention, and a sturdy handle. . I love reading through all the data youve gathered and making note of all the trends (Im a physical organic chemist). CPM 154 . European steel company Sandvik produces 14C28N, a non-powder metallurgy steel. When describing the characteristics of a steel, a few common attributes are commonly talked about. The biggest factor for cost of knife steel is whether it is produced with conventional ingot technology or powder metallurgy. False treatment and geometry upheld by Made in USA is like buying 8Cr from China (except late A.G) My personal experience tops with Vanadis 4E, CPM-M4, RWL-34 and the likes. There is one exception: Bucks 420HC (Buck and onlyBuck) is produced using a proprietary heat treatment. List of blade materials - Wikipedia Its tough, but thats about it. Hes already done a three part series on cryogenic treatment: (I think the 420HC estimate in that post was based on simulation or computer modeling, since you didnt spray testing any of the 400 series.) https://cedric-ada-store.creator-spring.com/listing/brickard-heritage-collectionGood gravy its bricky on thingsSubscribe and hit the bell! Type 8Cr, the more common formulation, is worse than AUS-8: a little more prone to corrosion and not quite as hard. Thats a tiny difference, but in combination with the 420HC disparity, it conceals a full point difference between 420HC and 440A: 7.6 vs. 8.6. But the true calling card of INFI is its insane toughness. 14C28N. 14C28N knives are better than D2 knives in corrosion resistance. Stainless steels usually top out around 64 Rc and may require careful heat treating to get there. 14C28N VS D2 Attributes: 14c28n: D2 . VG-1 is a non-powder steel made by Japanese specialty steelmaker Takefu. Theyll be fully attributed to you with website and Patreon links, obviously. Approximately the same hardness, yes. It has a lower hardness and edge retention as compared to the 9Cr knife. Thats a little too far, but you get the point.). and why would anyone want to use it when 420HC looks so much better for a simple stainless steel option. M390 Knife Steel - BladeReviews.com I would also suggest adding a hardness rating to the ratings tables that currently include toughness, edge retention, and corrosion resistance ratings. I know that one does not normally make knife blades of titanium, but I gather that Ti is extremely corrosion resistant, used for saltwater applications, etc. Its found on a large number of traditional-style folders. Below shows pictures of a 61 Rc knife that was impacted with a 3/16 rod at different energy levels. Im not hating on 80crv2 , Ive used it. The steel was developed to be free from chromium carbides which gives it properties similar to balanced non-stainless tool steels like CPM-4V and CPM-CruWear. [Steel Knife Review], Best survival knife sword: 5160 steel Review, What is VG 10 pocket knife? That provides 14% Chromium and offers excellent corrosion resistance. Water is a severe quenchant that can often lead to warping or cracking. Because of its difficulty in sharpening and machining, its very rarely used and comes with a high price premium. Steels with very high vanadium content like Vanadis 8, CPM-10V, K390, CPM-15V, etc. While not a powder steel, 154CM is widely used in nicer knives. 2) you do not go into the sharpening in much detail. Is 14c28n A Good Knife Steel? [Complete Steel Guide] Here, read on for an in-depth look at common knife steels as well as the best knife steels around. 8am-5pm Saturday. Many steel ratings articles pay lip service to the importance of heat treatment without providing examples. In that case the difficulty in sharpening would be the inverse of the edge retention rating. If you shop for knives based strictly on steel, you might be disappointed. The Sandvik 14c28n steel is ideal for the manufacturing of steel knife blades. Theres also a line of green triangles a bit below that. There was significant sharpness loss with 1095, almost none with 440A, and D2 was in between. Its very hard, tough, and corrosion-resistant. A more obtuse edge angle is much more resistant to chipping than an acute edge. The 25 dps sharpened knife saw almost no edge damage with 2 ft-lbs while a 15 dps edge saw a significant chip with only 0.3 ft-lbs and catastrophic chipping with 1.4 ft-lbs. Below shows charts summarizing tests of different steels for the major categories discussed so far, low alloy steels, high alloy non-stainless steels, and stainless steels. Most low alloy tool steels and carbon steels also have fine carbide structures without powder metallurgy processing. But it would be my recommendation for applications requiring extreme corrosion resistance. Guide to the Best Knife Steel | Knife Informer While higher hardness does lead to improved edge retention the bigger reason to have higher hardness is for resisting edge deformation. If you are looking for a high-end knife on a budget, the varieties of both steel will serve you. I wont go into detail about those here. Damascus or pattern welded steel is a result of combining two steels together. The Complete Guide to Knife and Tool Steels - Heinnie Haynes Poor availability may effectively increase cost of steel. However,M390, CTS-204P, and CPM-20CV are all pretty difficult to resharpen, so maintain that edge! second it might be of importance which way you sharpened because if against the edge the steels might have reacted differently to the contamination remaining on the edge. High Speed steels are a subset that have significant additions of Mo and/or W that makes them resist softening when they are used for machining operations. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Some steels are more difficult to manufacture for the steel company or have more expensive alloying elements so the cost is increased. How long sharpen? We can predict edge retention of a steel within a relatively narrow band based on hardness and carbide volume. However, high wear resistance means that abrasives are used up more rapidly, more careful grinding is necessary to avoid overheating, finishing and polishing is much more time consuming, etc. LC200N The brand Bark River uses A2 in many models. Toughness and edge retention are generally opposing properties and it is difficult to improve both of them at the same time. It can build a knife that sustains a sharp cutting edge for long periods and is sufficiently wear-resistant. The knives are ideal for both indoor and outdoor use. I also added a few more steels in this study. 14C28N vs D2: Which Steel Is Better? - Knifeful.com I would like to see the rating and performance on test of the Chinese Steels, that some people use to say its cheap garbage, like 3Cr13MoV, 4Cr13, 4Cr13Mo, 4Cr14MoV, 5Cr15MoV, 6Cr13MoV, 7Cr17MoV, 8Cr13MoV, 9Cr13MoVCo, 9Cr18MoV, 9Cr19MoV, and the 14cr14MovNB to see if they are similar, worse or better than the steels that they copyi believe we gonna have some good unexpected results. Knife Steel Rust Testing 1095, 8Cr13Mov, D2, 420HC, Walmart - YouTube We all have our preference, but overall, preference leans towards the pocket knife with a clip. In particular, I have found the ESEE/Rowen 1095 to be less likely to chip and better at holding an edge than the KA-BAR version even in knives with the same role, thickness, and blade length. But in use, Ive found nothing that withstands the abuse that 3V can take. my understanding is that wood is not a particularly abrasive material and a plane is more of a push cut action than a slicing action so I would have though edge stability and sharpness is more important than edge retention meaning ABE-L should work pretty well. Moreover, the blades will serve you longer because they do not wear out faster with frequent use and sharpening. Only a few years ago Elmax was pricey, but competition has driven it down to reasonable levels, making it a decent value. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. I reserve the right to change my ratings based on new information. Thanks! . . If the properties of a knife meet your knife needs and it has the above characteristics, then it qualifies as a quality knife. 14C28N Leek: D2 Leek: jonnymac44 Joined Sep 27, 2007 Messages 7,674 Oct 21, 2008 #2 Hey Michael, First off, the new 14C28N from Sandvik is just now hitting the streets, and I don't have any results just yet for you. thanks thats interesting. 1095 stains easily and thus is often coated, especially in fixed blades. Hit like and all t. In general, higher carbon and higher vanadium steels have higher wear resistance and edge retention but lower toughness. 14C28N steel is the improved version of 13C26 with better rust resistance. Steels that are higher in hardness and wear resistance are usually lower in toughness. 20? rex 121 This is one of the better steels on the market. Rex 45 Rather than upgrade from D2 to M4 or S30V just drop the angle from 40 degrees to 30 degrees. 1.4116 While 9Cr18MoV steel is highly corrosion resistant due to the addition of Cr, and Mo. : knife a with a toughness of 5 and an angle of 20 degrees will perform as well in edge retention as knife b with a toughness of 3 and an angle of 15 degrees. Im not sure they answer my question, though, and some of your points dont seem to jive with the info here on Larrins site. Another is that 8Cr13MoV is a generic name for a specific composition while AUS-8 is a name of a product by a specific company. I was recommended the Rat 1 in D2 and I also found that I really like the design of the Ruike p135 and p128. Even though it has very high hardness, its also still decently resistant to corrosion and quite tough. Unfortunately a high amount of it decreases strength. It richly deserves its reputation for high-quality gained over the years by Sandvik, a Swedish manufacturer of world-renowned steel. The Best D2 Steel Knives And What Makes Them Great The knife Natrix with substantial copper handle is a deceptively hefty EDC. EDGE RETENTION . Can you contact me via my email address so I can send you a copy in PDF and epub. Properties: 14C28N: D2: Edge retention: 4/10: 7/10: Ease of sharpening: 6/10: 3/10: Corrosion resistance: 4/10: 4/10: Toughness: 6/10: 6/10: CIVIVI Knives Elementum Folding Pocket Knife 2.96" D2 Satin Blade . This is a non-powder Japanese steel used primarily in Spyderco knives. My other knives are a Real Steel E77 8cr14mov. 14C28N and D2 knives are affordable high-end knives. ApexUltra is a steel that we are working on that had excellent properties in small batch production (50 lbs). Lately Ive been edcing one of those instead of a nice folder. 440C steel In general, steels look worse as you go up in hardness because the toughness is reduced by more than the edge retention is increased. Ive seen more talk and some articles regarding the use of AI to come up with new potential drug molecules, polymeric materials, etc. I think you wrote an article a bit ago on CTS-XHP and concluded that like D2 and ZDP-189 it wasnt really stainless (although stainless is a somewhat arbitrary line). Steel produced in China is generally less expensive. Powder metallurgy steels with low vanadium content like CPM-1V and Z-Tuff/CD#1 have extremely high toughness. But unlike most high-end steels, SPY27 is an easily user-serviceable powder steel. Im going to give the ratings first and then give more explanation about how the ratings were created. It does have chromium but is not as sufficient as required to be a type of stainless steel. I would suggest adding a second axis to the ratings charts that show the data values that the 0-10 ratings are based on (unnotched charpy impact energy, 1% saltwater , Total cards cut, etc.). I wrote an article about knife steel ratings available online in 2018, where I concluded that none of them were very good. This showed that XHP and ZDP-189 have significantly lower corrosion resistance than other stainless steels. Monday-Friday As wear resistance is increased the differences between conventional and powder metallurgy steels become greater. This is about comparing steels to each other rather than a limitation of an individual steel. A quick check shows the compositions of these steels are nearly identical, so based on that Id expect them to perform similarly (differences in heat treat and blade geometry aside). BD1 is excellent budget steel, very similar in composition and performance to GIN-1, a Japanese steel used a decade ago by Spyderco. Edge Retention Test! 14c28n vs VG10 blade steel comparison - YouTube On the other hand, 9cr18mov has a slightly higher molybdenum content which gives it higher hardness from quenching and helps drive carbide formation. Read more. However, I would argue that pure material removal is usually not the limiting step for ease in sharpening. Therefore you will use it for a long time without requiring frequent sharpening. Without any confusion, you can purchase this set that has a slim, versatile, modified drip-point blade with good slicing capabilities. https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/12/17/cryogenic-processing-of-steel-part-3/. https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/05/01/testing-the-edge-retention-of-48-knife-steels/, Unfortunately it all comes down to marketing on everybody involved: Industry, knifemakers, users. S110V has improved corrosion resistance at the cost of some toughness compared to S90V. Also Mo additions improve corrosion resistance for a given amount of chromium. Note just because a blade is made from the premium or high-end steels listed above does not automatically mean its better than the lesser steels. Three main characteristics differentiate steels from one another: corrosion resistance, hardness, and toughness. The most significant cost increase comes from powder metallurgy, used to create most of the expensive knife steels. My test is for comparing different steels, not necessarily for a go/no go test for saltwater applications. The 14C28N, on the other hand, is tougher. But its very cheap, and, when ground appropriately, it can be a real winner from a value standpoint. These steels offer a great balance of characteristics that work well, from big choppers to thin slicers. Maxamet is one of two current high-hardness kings, with HRc marks in the high 60s approaching 70, a hardness usually only seen in carbide steels. In its most basic form, steel is just iron and carbon, but people have been studying, experimenting with, and perfecting steel with other elements for specific applications for millennia. But SM100 is not widely available, hard to heat treat and grind, and exceptionally expensive. Ive found that most makers harden S30V too much, making it prone to chipping at the edge. The hardness of the carbides does not matter much unlike with edge retention. We should be suspicious of anyone who is claiming very high edge retention with a steel at low hardness and a small amount of carbide. Steels that can be high in edge retention and toughness are desirable for general use knives. 14% of Chromium: Increases corrosion resistance and wear resistance. Thanks to Bill Smutz, Alex Topfer, Florian Bachler, Brunhard, Art, Rod H, Sach, Jinny Koh, Jon Duda, Cory Henderson, and UPKnife for becoming Knife Steeel Nerds Patreon supporters!