LOWER COG IN NEW IRONS REQUIRES LESS LOFT A LOT OF THE TIME TO GET THE SAME DISTANCE OF OLDER CLUBS WITH A HIGHER COG. In fact, a sound, fundamental hold on the club is the first step in setting up for a technically sound golf swing. Production Manager Wesley Turner: Five Years in the Bag. In some cases "craftsman's" marks on the hosels may result from bending them to the required loft / lie. Golfers can talk about shafts until they are blue in the face, and different shafts will make a difference in control, feel and sometimes launch and spin. Ping Glide wedges w/Recoil 110 Offset degrees especially with a long iron can be a factor along with sole design. Im 62 and most GI clubs are too long even for me in their stock iteration with this progressive shaft lengths concept. It flies lower and that is about it. It is a taylormade udi 2i that I want to bend from 18* to 16*. Instead, I will take Novak at slight odds-on in his three-ball against Scott Brown and Arjun Atwal. The golfwrx wannabe touring pros will argue otherwise.. After reading the headline I was expecting a slightly different subject discussed but this topic is something Ive been wondering about myself. I did the math on these numbers years ago when I had an early release and wondering why I could not hit the irons very far. 2 degrees upright - Club Fitting - Team Titleist So if you are steep or tend to take a pretty good divot, you may not want to bend them more than a degree. Undershooter This could cause them to dig at impact, and no one wants that. I did this to reduce the spin rate. I highly recommend that golfers get fitted before making a large purchase on golf clubs. By The so-called "standard" lie angles are 9 iron at 64* with a spacing of 1 deg between clubs. The MB and CB clubs you have need a bit more loft to get the ball launched well. Forged titanium models are bendable as well due to their softer titanium structure. "If you have any doubt about the hand position, think of this scenario. From my research into various golfer communities, it is highly likely that if you are reading this blog post you probably are playing to somewhere between a 5 and 16 handicap. You might find that you ask yourself if you are better or worse than the average golfer? Bubba might better be able to answer that question, I know you can with the mb or cbs. Callaway Epic - HZRDUS BlackCobra F9 3 Wood Not sure about the AP2s. A wind-affected island track that offers rewards for aggression. And why really do you need to do it besides being able to brag about hitting the ball farther? I was 50 yards out on the 3rd hole, and was in the moguls. He is also 1 of 33 TrackMan Masters in the world, and has completed thousands of successful fittings using TrackMan. St Louis, MO. I have to explain that the design allows the iron to have a stronger loft. I am a good long iron player and prefer them over fairway woods and especially hybrids. If you're after a driving iron, I would expect you to use it off the tee for the most part. weight removed), (face-balanced) + Evnroll Gravity Grip | SeeMore FGP + SuperStroke 1.0PT. JavaScript is disabled. More is not always better, but I would expect nothing less from a fitter at Carls Golfland. GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, Tuesday at 04:47 PM, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 20, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 13, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 6, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, January 31, By IG: golfer_scott The drop off in make percentage from 3-6 feet and 6-9 feet is huge. Dont worry and overthink this like most doo. My 54 wedge has 12 of bounce and the divots I take with it are just a big as all the rest. If its putting or greenside scoring, spend your time working on those aspects instead of beating balls on the range. Bending the hosel toward or away from the face plane, opens or closes the clubs face angle. Will bending irons 2 degrees strong promote more of a draw ball flight? More ball speed helps them keep the ball in the air longer, which raises their maximum height. Its ball speed not loft that is increasing distance. You can post now and register later. This happens probably most frequently with wedges, when a person wants to play 3 instead of 4 wedges for example. Great answer Blake. And its one of only two elements of the golf swing that require absolutely no physical skills. Low bounce irons can become more digging prone from this change. Bending 716MB irons 1 or 2 degrees strong - Team Titleist Here is a quick list of scenarios that might mean that you need to use a flatter lie angle in your clubs: On the flip side, here is a list of situations that might require you to get a more upright lie angle: The best way to get your loft and lie adjusted is by a professional club fitter. I also don't mind the little more offset I don't over cut it. Military. The incredible story behind Arnold Palmers $275,000 irons from the 1960s, OLD vs. NEW: TaylorMade Tour Preferred MC 2011 irons vs. My modern irons (Full launch monitor numbers), Legendary club designer Larry Bobka speaks on his new $599 blade irons, What are these?! What still kills me are the guys coming in and demanding a lower lofted driver thinking it will give them more distance. So you bend them 1 degree strong, bounce follows it by a degree. Compare that with 49-year-old Atwal, with a best of 49th place since 2021 and an average first-round placing of around 120th for his three starts in 2023, and Scott Brown, admittedly a former winner here, but now 719th in the world and who has, since September, withdrawn twice during tournaments, and missed his last two cuts (Pebble and Honda) ranking 99th and 136th for his first round he certainly looks wrong in every way. Editors note: This article is in collaboration with Shot Scope. Think about how much this could help golfers from the rough as well. One other thing is that some clubs are designed from the factory strong lofted to begin with Taylor Made GI irons are a good example of this. My miss is hitting it fat, so I was especially concerned with how bending them strong would affect bounce. I wouldn't feel comfortable messing with the bounce/offset/loft. More photos from the event here. Paste as plain text instead, probably best to just change the shaft length), You stand tall over the golf ball when swinging, Your golf ball starts towards the right of your target (left for lefties), You hit the golf ball off the toe of the cub more often causing the clubface to open up and create push or slice. They wont question a fitter who recommends that they switch to a 10.5-degree driver instead of an 8.5 or 9.5, because those are established as acceptable driver lofts. 2023 Acushnet Company. This is a dumb question but were you fit for them? I knew that bounce and loft have a 1:1 ratio but never thought that changing lie angle would affect swingweight but it makes perfect sense. TM TPx. The most common complaint I hear from golfers looking for new irons is that all the lofts are jacked strong. If someone is playing an iron set, for instance, from the late 1990s or earlier they will most likely find their irons to be 2-to-3 degrees weaker than todays game-improvement irons, and even some players irons. As long as the spin rate is acceptable, the new irons, because of their lower center of gravity, are going to produce more speed off the face (due to the lower loft and lower COG) and more distance. All rights reserved. Just curious for those who have personal experience with this as to the answer. Learn how your comment data is processed. They catch a bit but I hit it crispier. Not fact but I do think more offset makes it easier to draw the ball. That said, no equipment can make up for poor fundamentals in your approach to moving a golf ball around three to four miles of real estate in the least number of strokes. It just depends. Clear editor. Routinely, I notice longer than standard 85g shafts with these sets. Will I be digging too much? Odyssey #7 Tank, I got a set of Titleist 716 cb that are bent 2 degrees strong (they end up being 1 Degree weaker than my old z745 I believe). Srixon Q-Star Tour / 2. Not only does it mess with the bounce/offset, but it's only a number on the sole if the club. Reduce the loft & you reduce the bounce which, on the longer clubs, is quite small anyway. Uneven lies can vary more than an inch, and based on club geometry that is 1.6* right there, and I can't say I had much effect on the playability of the club. The speed of putts is crucial. Does bending your club 1 degree really matter? - Team Titleist But if a high spin player gets a 15 launch and 6000 RPM with a 115 MPH ball speed with a 5-iron, then whats wrong with that? Arnold Palmer Invitational 2023 (*** NO LIV DISCUSSIONS/REFERENCES ***), Custom Ping i230 5-UW KBS Tour R+ Power Spec, G425 3 wood with GD TP, Ping Kaili Shaft,King Tec Hybrid, Jaws Raw & Zipcore Wedge, Airmax 97, Apex UW. The Ever Changing Bag! I am glad you mentioned shaft length, static lengths for GI clubs, how it impacts flight, etc. The 2 that were out the most went from 'avoided' clubs to 'favourites'! Lets assume that the launch angle with a modern-lofted set of irons is ideal. Hi Greyson, Bending your irons strong will reduce the bounce of the club. So if you are steep or tend to take a pretty good divot, you may not want to bend them more than a degree. This could cause them to dig at impact, and no one wants that. It would decrease the bounce on each club, not a good idea, as well as it would cause the ball to go farther. With all due respect, I am not saying you do not, but club fitters do this all the time and if they mess it up then they can replace the club. Working through the grades, hisdebut, five-shot victory on the KFT,was backed up with a pair of top-10s and two-top-20s, easily enough to nab his PGA Tour card for 2022/23. Just about every club that leaves the factory won't be 100% spot on for loft, manufacturing tolerances are going to throw that out. Yes, it would make the clubs a little 'longer' (with a lower ball flight), but it might not be worth it, especially if you already take a divot. Mizuno JPX 921 Hot Metal. More than likely you will hit the ball a bit farther as well, potentially close to 1/2 a club. This applies to both face angle and lie. examples, keep you head down, hit down on the ball, you gotta swing inside out. Your previous content has been restored. However, in reality it was now a 63* wedge so what happened. Should I have my new 3-Iron Bent 1 Degree Strong? I meant decrease loft and make stronger. If the added ball speed of modern irons is not enough to achieve an ideal landing angle, I have to add loft. I changed my Apex pro 19 2 degrees strong. ***GIVEAWAY*** Cleveland CBX ZipCore Wedge! The average golfer leaves 65 percent of all approach shots short of the green. Should I see any difference in 1 degree stronger irons? Mizuno MP59 4i-6I w/ PX 6.5, Wedges- Scratch 8620 Driver/Slider set. I play high bounce Ping G30's and have bent some of the clubs in that set that strong. OP, which is it you are asking about.. making a club 2* stronger or increasing loft? The new grooves should also be mentioned as allowing the ball to slide up the face a little more compared to the older grooves. Will keep that in mind from now on, It is hard for some golfers to understand how irons with more loft can help them hit the ball farther,. I am not sure exactly what you are asking with the final 2 questions, are you asking should the 5 and 7 iron have the same launch conditions as the 6 iron, or would there be any issues if your 5 iron or the 7 iron launched like the ideal conditions for the 6 iron? I do know a typical modern club the PW has the loft of like an older blade 8 iron. Simply put, bending the iron 6.5 degrees strong wasn't an option. I've bent tons of clubs. By setting up with the ball 1" farther back in your stance, and all other things being exactly the same you are delofting the club by 1.6* based on the average length club.. Are their ways to ensure a club wont break? I'm curious what effect bending the irons 1 or 2 degrees strong would have on the irons playability. So going 2 strong will remove 2 degrees of bounce. make it a "digger" per say? That means someone who has a ballflight thats too low, he delivers the head with less loft than needed, and by that less than the design of the head is meant to be played with, so he cant go wrong by tweaking lofts weaker. Ping G30 irons w/Recoil 95 How noticeable will the difference in trajectory be and will distances change? It is common for the golfers I fit to hit todays irons, which average about 2 degrees less loft per club, as high as their current set (if not higher). Your golf ball starts off towards the left of your target (right for lefties). Low bounce irons can become more digging prone from this change. In between, the Aussie came home fast to be 18th in Cam Smiths Australian PGA, and although he missed the cut at his home Open, sat in the top-10 after an opening 65. I'm not so much of a digger with long irons, and I thought about getting my rogue 5i bent a degree stronger and not carry a 4. If you are a true sweeper that may be ok but you may not see that big distance gain you are hoping for. If anything I am a digger in the golf swing. Taking the destructive shot out of your game is key. So what makes 15-16 and 6000 RPM ideal? Even forged clubheads made of the wrong steel . You won't notice it. Like you said, it will change the bounce but other than that, it wont change much and shouldnt effect the playability of the club unless you are really steep and need the bounce. And the opposite is true as the speed drops. You are also all correct in that it is a long iron. I realize this can be affected by angle of attack, swing speed, iron/shaft design, and ball design. So it doesnt matter to me what loft a golfers 6 iron is, as long as that loft allows a golfer to launch and spin the ball in a way thats ideal for their swing. (I ran into this today.) Albion, MI 49224 2 degrees upright, what does this say about my swing etc While you might prefer the overlap, interlock or full-finger style, the hold on the golf club is pretty much the same the upper portion of the grip has to be under the pad of the upper hand and held more in the fingers than the palm of both hands. How Bryson DeChambeau's Ping irons came to life | Wall-to-Wall After this long introduction, Nick keep preaching this gospel. That means judging any of this due to the club head alone and isolated makes no sense, we have to include the player and his delivery of the head since thats what matters for if we can / should go weaker or stronger or leave it as it is. A long iron doesn't have much bounce anyway since it was made to not take a big divot. Required fields are marked *. Since clubs are bent with iron bars by applying pressure on. 50*, 54* bent to 55* and 60*, Putter- Taylormade Spider Tour w/ flow neck sorry, didnt mean increase loft. Your email address will not be published. PXG 0311P Gen 3 - 5to PW - Nippon 125 X It is very easy to do these modifications, and also recommended by a lot of folks to have your set checked either frequently or at the end of each year in case any changes happened during the season from general play. "I suppose its better to be a master of 7 than to be vaguely familiar with 14." But if it'll mess up the performance or whatnot, I'm not messing with it. I am constantly amazed at how many golfers are trying to play the game with a fundamentally unsound hold of the club. The Wedge Guy: What really makes a wedge work. Now as lower handicappers, we will probably not have our hands at impact fluctuating 3, 4 or 6 inches, but I would not say mine are within an inch of exactly the same place every time. The new era of stronger lofts is all about how far to hit 7 iron vs how close to hit 7 iron and more accurate. Golfers change the lie angle of a club to better their chances of hitting the center of the clubface. Decided to get lofts and lie's double checked on my irons for peace of mind and following a gap check session get them bent 2 degree strong to the original manufacturer loft spec. Taylormade SIM UDI 2i / Diamana THUMP 100X, Taylormade P770 3i (bent weak) / Project X LS 6.5, Taylormade P7MC 5-7i, P7MB 8-9i / Project X LS 6.5. Fairway Metal- Taylormade SLDR Mini Driver 12* w/ Fujikura Rombax TP95-X", Utility- Mizuno MPH5 1 iron w/ Aldila RIP 85X (depending on course/ conditions), Irons- Mizuno MP- FLI HI 2i w/ Aldila Proto ByYou 100X Idk CG specifics on those models, but I have seen similar results with I20, and G25. Bounce means nothing. Titleist U500 3 & 4 Oban Kiyoshi Purple Tour Reserve Cast club heads made of industrial steel are all on the so-called "unbendable list". 2023 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos, 2023 The Honda Classic - Discussion and Links to photos, 2023 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to photos, 2023 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Discussion and Links to Photos, 2023 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am - Discussion and Links to all photos, Fitness, maximum efficiency for the time spent. We also see these players having gapping issues with a mid iron, not just 4 and 5 like your example, so adding loft achieves better gapping as well. The lightweight speed designs dont seem to help the everyday golfer from the examples I see out on the course. So, if you really want to get better at golf, start by learning how to hold the club properly. Anyway, the scorecard couldn't care less what club you hit. Here are the different ways fitters change the lie angle of a club: A club can either be bent to an upright position (toe higher than heel) or flat (toe lower than heel) usually in increments of 1 or 2 degrees. most amateurs like to hit the long ball not the low score. It is common for the golfers I fit to hit todays irons, which average about 2 degrees less loft per club, as high as their current set (if not higher). Ping Redwood Anser- the "real deal!". Ping G425 5 wood & hybrid That is only if the area you are going to contact the ball moves up on the face as a result of bending, the lower portion of the face will move backwards when bent strong. The concern is that all the fitting carts only have 6 irons and with the gaping on the 3, 4 and 5 irons lonely being 3* I am concerned on irons would react to my adjustments. After the back-to-back top-25s, he was a sneaky play at a long price for the Honda, but was never comfortable, withdrawing during the event with sinus issues. Yes, it would make the clubs a little 'longer' (with a lower ball flight), but it might not be worth . Chamblee takes on Tiger: Brandel, meet Bayless, Tweets of the week: Lizards, grammar police, bad greens, worse sunglasses. 716 MB'S. That's what I did with my 4i: took out the 95 gram KBS shaft and replaced it with a 75-gram SteelFiber 780 HLS hybrid shaft. GolfWRX_Official I will only add that I don't see what the benefit would be to strengthening loft. I was thinking of bending my irons 3 degrees stronger as my ball flights were too high, but then there would be a big gap to fill between the pitching wedge and the gap wedge, and potentially more side effects of bending the clubs then. All data in this article is gathered from Shot Scopes database of over 140,000 golfers and in excess of 250 million shots recorded using performance tracking products such as the unique PRO LX+ laser rangefinder. Are you above or below average for some or all of these statistics? Step 1 for those golfers is to increase ball speed. Ball- Bridgestone Tour B X, In the grand scheme of things, I would say zero effect. See below the make percentage for an average golfer from varying distances. When you make the club loft stronger you decrease loft, when you make it weaker you increase the loft. Its taking up to 2 degrees off each iron. I created this website after hearing the same questions from my students over and over as a place where new golfers can come to learn and improve their golf game. A good tune-up is a good tune-up regardless of the final loft gaps. While golf club manufacturers certainly try to make a consistent product, there are often inconsistencies in the lofts and lies of the clubs and they may not be progressively consistent from one club to another. Your link has been automatically embedded. Plenty have broken their duck here, and now the Puerto Rico curse has been resigned to history lets get with a couple of players who have their best days in front of them. Great point I am a low ball hitter looking for more distance especially in my high irons. I have read that if you bend 1 degree strong you lower the bounce on the iron. Being a golf club designer and marketer, I certainly know that there are gains to be made in your efficiency by availing yourself of the right modern equipment. Clear editor. Check out our video: how-to bend your clubs on a Mitchell Golf Angle Machine:Get Bending! That said, people will usually launch clubs higher with a longer shaft length as well, (mechanical advantage/physics) so again, it kind of goes hand in hand with the stronger lofts. Show Your True Colors With Mitchell Golfs Custom Color Program. It is a combination of those factors to get consistent results. Some get more spin, some less. Golfers can see their spin rate drop thousands of RPMs from the rough (depending on the rough and type of lie), so being able to keep their shots in the air with enough spin to stop the ball on the green can be a huge part of helping them shoot lower scores. I realize it is hard to write to such a diverse audience, but Im going to give it my best with this post, and pose the basic two questions to each of you : If the answer to No. Remember, the set is not necessarily progressively consistent from one club to another, and therefore each club should be checked. Thanks for the insight! Yes, it would make the clubs a little 'longer' (with a lower ball flight), but it might not be worth . I know it will increase the bounce. Ultimately, your answer is yes, you can do this. The main reason it is done on GolfWRX is so people can brag how far they hit their irons, generally with a passive brag. Titleist Vokey 47* Oban CT 125, 51*, 55*, and 59* Shimada Tour Wedge Black Started Thursday at 03:24 PM. I use Ping I Blades and Ping have a 'power spec' on their website for these where the lofts can be bent to and still retain playabilty.